Amanda Knox wielded the knife that killed Meredith, says judge

Judge who convicted Knox explains why he is convinced of her guilt – even if others aren't

Column LAST UPDATED AT 18:50 ON Tue 29 Apr 2014

AMANDA KNOX inflicted the fatal knife blow that killed Meredith Kercher while Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede held her back, according to the Italian judge who convicted the American of murder earlier this year and who today released his 'reasoning'.

Moreover, during the course of Knox’s long and drawn out judicial process, Judge Alessandro Nencini claims, serious attempts were made to tamper with evidence in a way that would favour her.

It is the latest twist in a case that began more than six years ago when British exchange student Meredith Kercher was found stabbed to death in the flat she shared with Knox in Perugia, Italy.

Nencini theorises in his 337-page reasoning report that the deep, fatal knife wound on the left side of Kercher’s neck was delivered as a coup de grace to silence the English girl, who had screamed after being lightly cut on the other side of the neck by Raffaele Sollecito with a different, smaller knife, after an altercation over money, men and hygeine.

“It is certain that the second stab into the left side of the victim’s neck was carried out after the girl had screamed, and to stop her from repeating the scream: in fact, after the knife stab went into the victim’s neck eight centimeters, the hemorrhage would have stopped poor Meredith from screaming.”

In the scathing report that spells out the evidence, logic and reasoning that led to his guilty verdict in Florence on 30 January, Judge Nencini also says Knox and her defence tried to tamper with evidence and pervert the truth by introducing prisoners as witnesses, whose testimony turned out to be false and induced by “other interests”.

“It is clear how this trial was subject to heavy evidence tampering, both internally (slander) and externally,” Nencini writes.

He calls the media interest in the case “fertile ground” that led a number of witnesses to give misleading testimony in exchange for their moment in the limelight.

He also slams the first appeal court’s independent experts for having been oddly superficial and illogical in their analysis of the DNA evidence, especially regarding the potential for contamination, noting that controls were in place to prevent it.

Nencini considers DNA evidence produced in the first trial as reliable, but also cites the new statistical evaluation by the RIS of Rome as further proof that the large kitchen knife was indeed the murder weapon, and was wielded by Knox.

Knox and Sollecito, who was her Italian boyfriend at the time, were convicted of murder in 2009. A third man, Ivory Coast national Rudy Guede, was also convicted of participating in the group homicide, in a separate trial in 2008. He lost all his appeals and remains incarcerated in Italy, where he is serving a 16-year sentence.

Nencini cites much from Rudy Guede’s trials and, unlike the first appeal trial judges, considers some of his testimony to be a strong element of proof that Knox and Sollecito were also involved.

Knox and Sollecito were released from prison in 2011 after an appeals court sensationally acquitted them of nearly all charges (one charge against Knox stuck: the slander of Congolese pub owner Patrick Lumumba, who she initially blamed for the crime).

The acquittal ruling, however, was later annulled by Italy’s Supreme Court and a second appeal trial in a jurisdiction outside Perugia was ordered. By that time Knox was safe and sound back in Seattle and chose not to return to Italy for her Florence appeal, instead emailing a statement to the judge, proclaiming her innocence. Sollecito attended.

On 30 January, Judge Nencini and a lay panel of jurors issued a guilty verdict and handed down an even harsher sentence: 25 years for him and 28.5 years for her.

Knox went on national television back in the US the following day claiming, as she always has, that she continues to be the victim of a gross miscarriage of justice carried forward by inertia by dozens of Italian judges.

But in his report, Nencini suggests the gross miscarriage was by Knox and her defence lawyers: indeed, he gave her a longer jail sentence precisely because of the gravity of the slander against Patrick Lumumba aimed at getting investigators off her back.

A small group of fervent supporters continue to lobby on Knox's behalf and earlier this month she attended an Innocence Project conference with other exonerees, even though Italy's courts have upheld her convictions.

Sollecito, meanwhile, has a new Italian girlfriend who is a fellow student. Over the Easter holidays the couple was spotted walking by the Via della Pergola house where Kercher was murdered.

With this latest development, however, there appears little wriggle- room for either Knox or Sollecito. Italy’s Supreme Court is expected to give the final ruling on the case after September. · 

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Excellent article. I have every confidence that Knox will go to prison for the rest of her life!

This is the show that just keeps giving. It will be fun to read the court's reasoning and explanations how Knox, Sollecito and Guede held Kercher down and only Guede's foot/shoe prints were found in the room. If only this didn't involve real people.

Thank you Andrea. Very well said. I believe the pair are guilty and I hope you are right that they now have little wriggle-room.

Excellent article Andrea! Thank you. After they carve their sentences in stone later this year, the next step will be extradition. Since Knox has already branded herself as a "fugitive" she'll be incarcerated in Sea Tac during the extradition process.

The judge ruled the knife was in the room, as was Sollecito's DNA.
Are you curious how come, following your reasoning, no evidence of Guede was found in the room he supposedly broke in?

Andrea has been a long-time champion of truth in Meredith Kercher's case; one of the few mainstream journalists getting the story right from the beginning. Looks like AV -- the real deal -- will be there until the end of this sordid saga. Meredith deserved so much more from her life than what she received -- murdered by three despicable people whose actions were initiated by a narcissistic sociopath like AK.

very good article. It seems that Nencini has done a good job, and has used logic and reason. Justice for Meredith.

There is white powder on the clothes beneath the left side window viewed from from the street. There is a fresh scuff mark on the right upper surface of the lower window frame where he placed his foot while clearing more glass he placed on the right sill. After climbing in he pulled the shutters closed, to conceal his presence from the street, causing the glass to line up. The glass distribution in the room is caused by the high velocity throw of the rock, that also caused a shard of glass to be deeply embedded in the hardwood face of the interior shutter. This can be clearly seem at minute 55:10 in the Case for Innocence Knox youtube video. This will be examined by the American courts during the futile request for Amanda's extradition, and meanwhile by the whole world when it is correctly publicised.

No, she will pursue a stellar career in America while the ECHR overturns all incorrect verdicts.

There is little wiggle room for Raffaele, and Lyle and Stephanie will enjoy his comfortable apartment. Amanda happily will remain in the USA until the ECHR reverses these decisions.

That is incorrect. Italy will request her extradition but she will remain at large while the American courts study Meredith's autopsy and the fact the knife in Raffaele's apartment was clean of Meredith's dna profile while it lay quietly in the kitchen drawer before being seized.

There is statistical evidence being compiled that shows people who are hoodwinked into believing in her guilt have different cerebral wiring.

Not a particularly good article, neither agreeing or disagreeing with the verdict. Fence sitting for more kaching kaching.

factual.

no. that's not what will happen. not at all. LOL LOL LOL. you must love it in your fairy tale world.

the ECHR does not have the authority to reverse the decision of Italy's Supreme Court.

LOL LOL LOL

As long as we agree on Lyle and Stephanie.

Dmontnz seems to have the blind loyalty a Knox family member. LOL indeed!

shut up

The most important fact of the case of the murder of Meredith Kercher is that the physical assailant who perpetrated the act of murder, in its totality was Rudy Guede. Even the supposed case against Amanda Knox cannot escape that fact. In a fantastical imaginary scenario Amanda Knox was controlling Rudy Guedes actions. (Amanda the witch.) Given this we have to ask, “If Rudy Guede was not at the crime scene, how else would have Meredith been murdered?”. The answer is that it would have been highly unlikely. Though her “karate” training would have been useless against a semiprofessional athlete like Rudy Guede, she could have easily broken a dozen of Amanda and Raffaelle’s ribs.

There is no evidence or eye witness account that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito ever had anything to do with Rudy Guede other than be at the same party together.

There is a mountain of evidence and court record that Rudy Guede was actively involved in events at the house as a guest of Meredith Kerchers “boyfriend” (the British press especially gives this relationship an angelic hue, when it is clearly deserving of less) and the other young men living at the house on the first floor. He was known by them as a drifter, drug user, zombie king impersonator and generally worthless individual. Indeed he was courted as a friend for those very reasons. They were not much more than academic “drifters”, were certainly “drug users”, were likely amused by the theatrics of the “zombie king” and felt kinship with him because he was a “generally worthless individual”.

Meredith on the date of her murder was actively involved in
maintaining marijuana plants kept at the premises by her "boyfriend”and the afore mentioned others, by watering them in the absence of the young men. I.e. she was, feloniously, criminally involved. The plants could have been worth over a thousand dollars. This situation provided for a criminal like Rudy Guede a reason to break into the house and assault anyone living there as they would be unlikely to call the police.

Given these facts is clear without any further analysis that Meredith Kercher was more responsible for her own death than was Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito.

Why, you've been spouting venom for an unseemly period. It is false. Lyle wants Raffaele's money. There is no evidence that is untrue, because he would withdraw the civil claim.

Amanda Knox could face detention in tough US jail

Amanda Knox could spend the duration of any extradition wrangle between the US
and Italy locked up in a federal prison five miles from her home

http://www.telegraph.CO.UK/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10611826/Amanda-Knox-could-face-detention-in-tough-US-jail.html

The ECHR clearly states they are not an appeals court; they will not overturn or quash legal rulings in the member states. Read it and weep here:

http://www.echr.COE.INT/Documents/Questions_Answers_ENG.PDF

Would that please you, you sadist.

American courts examine You Tube videos? Who'd a thunk it?

That was uncalled for, but thanks for showing how hateful some of Knox and Sollecito's fans have been towards Meredith's family. They will never see their daughter and sister again, but, like Amanda, you are tone deaf.

I doubt many on your side even would agree with you.

Not your concern, not your money. As if the two perps haven't hidden away their loot and crying poor for effect already.

What 'stellar career'? She can't even write, or complete a bachelor's degree?

Good thing the only thing that's clear now is Knox and Sollecito have had their appeal quashed and the only 'further analysis' will be a strict interpretation of the law by Cassazione.

The Italian clowns will likely have to bring their evidence to a US grand jury, if they want extradition, and they will be required to defend all of it. If they weren't such cowards they would have done that prior to this last trial and demanded her presence. My bet is they will decline to request her extradition over some phony pretense. It will be much like the trial they had over CIA agents abducting that poor innocent little Muslim terrorist.

She has 'different cerebral wiring', don't you think? :)

You seem pretty sure of that.

There are enough people with legitimate concerns about AKs treatment to demand that the US evaluate the case, i.e. evidence.
I will agree that the extradition treaty would obligate the United States to hand her over. That won't happen because the administration would be seen as putting a treaty above the Constitution. In recent years Americans have shown profound actionable contempt for that kind of pandering to foreign tin can powers. The best way for the administration (whatever one is in power at the time) to deal with it is to have judge and maybe a grand jury evaluate the evidence as per US criminal code and standards. (you will notice that I am not arguing her innocence her, even though I believe that is the case)
The US could just have her arrested and hand her over, but it would cause a sh*t storm. Many people have said that to deny extradition under the present terms would anger Italy. That Italy will not cooperate in our fight against terror. Too bad. If it scotches the extradition treaty so what? We can deal with terrorists hiding in Italy or anywhere else in the globe the same way we deal with terrorists in Yemen or Pakistan. Italy's trade with the US is not that significant.

I really wanted you to reply to the break in evidence, as The American courts will be fascinated by the forensics. They build safe aeroplanes remember. Unlike you, I have done proper research.

Seems impossible that the DNA of two alleged assailants could be wiped clean while large amounts of DNA remained for a third assailant. All the narratives that have been produced and changed by the courts are just smoke and mirrors. First it was a sex game gone wrong, then an attack over hygiene and now an attack over money. Guilt or innocence should be decided by facts not narratives. The DNA evidence points to one man - Rudy Guede. The other two are innocent of the crime.

There are serious humanitarians who are genuinely concerned for the Kerchers for two reasons. One, they are wrong thinking Rudy had help overpowering a 54kg girl with rudimentary karate skills. Two, they were persuaded early by Maresca to close their eyes and ears to the evidence, and there was a civil suit that would pay his legal fees for them. They became entrapped by wilfull blindness.

I don't have a side, no one cares what I think, I am fanatically devoted to the truth, and the case fascinates me.

Manfro, you could not be more wrong. I have beliefs steeped in research. I have repeatedly explained something you know, there are forensic implausibilities that preclude the involvement of the American and the Italian. I am working like others to help you understand.

16 likes but you are fretful of being excluded from the conversation due to multiple bans. Damn I miss you. I oppose most forms of censorship.

Ok , thank you for your detailed and considered response to the undoctored photographic evidence on which the proposition is based. I will never give up on you manfro, as I think you have heart.

you are an ass !

Thanks,
Andrea for staying for the long run. It would be in Knox's best interest to stay in jail in Italy-they seem to have more leniency (e.g. Guide) than the U.S. I am looking forward to seeing a 'condensed' version of the report. Your documentary was well produced although I think it gave Knox and Co. too much leeway-the doc was able to only give a smattering of damning evidence. A good doc could be made of the media circus that surrounded the case and how mainly Americans and British have been manipulated in this case. It does seem that key PR people may have their day in court soon as Sollecito now has to answer for felonous lies written in his book. If you get a chance can you let us know if you will be doing a follow-up doc?

What is sad is the the doctor who investigated said there was a chance that poor Meredith could have lived if Amanda and Co. would have immediately called an ambulance. Instead they locked the door and let her choke in her own blood. Truly Horrendous.

You are incorrect.

The Treaty between the US and Italy is expressly prefaced by a mutual recognition of each other's legal system.

There will, therefore, be no "second-guessing" by any US court on the murder knife, or indeed, on any other aspect of the Knox case.

A formal Request by Italy, to the US, (under the Treaty), for Knox's Extradition will therefore result in her swift return to Italy to serve, in full, her thoroughly deserved sentence.

Frankly, yes, and immensely so.

Dimwit, the ECHR is NOT a court of Appeal and has therefore no power to "reverse the decisions".

Right on, Heather. You are right to lose patience with this il-informed twit, dmontnz.

You will need to grow a brain soon.

Well said!

Save your breath. Intelligent people are not listening.

Idiot

That isn't quite how an extradition treaty works, nor has it been exercised that way on behalf of any one else, to retry a case in US courts.

Yet you seem to believe the US will make a special exemption in her case? Why? She isn't with the CIA or US forces.

You might well be overestimating the amount of support she gets outside of the media, and even they aren't getting onboard this time around.

The 'American courts' will be advised by the State Department and DOJ that they saw nothing wrong with the trial, or why did they not speak up then?

Your beliefs are steeped in 'research' provided by the defense. Professor Balding and Novelli say the evidence is compelling, so does Dershowitz.
Clearly you don't have the capacity to understand that.

Then why ask Heather to 'agree' with you? Fanatics tend to demand group think, IMO.

They turned down a half million pound offer for exclusive photos to her funeral since they are not the type to profit from their daughter's death, unlike your favourite murderers. And, being in the real world, it appears unlikely they'd get an money anyway. What they want is justice, which they will get.

I saw the same photos and disagree with your analysis, but thanks anyway.

She isn't cut out for much, don't you agree?

Too right.

Andrea Vogt is a rare bird: tenacious, careful, wise.

Amanda is like Zelda Fitzgerald, either bipolar or schizophrenic, imo.

That's right. She said with her own mouth she would be a fugitive.

Do you really believe the U.S. courts will re-do the entire investigation again? nonsense

Knox was the sadist, till she got her hand slapped. Got her face slapped, too.

Yes, thanks Andrea.

they critically injured her

Dream on.
ECHR won't waste time on a solid case of guilt.

Lyle and Stephanie have lost an innocent sister. Look at all the strain poor Stephanie has had to endure as the only remaining daughter to Arline and John.
Meredith during life took a lot on her kind shoulders to help Arline through kidney dialysis, to call and boost mom's morale, to be a right hand of support to Stephanie. The two sissies were close and loved each other, they strengthened their brothers, dad & their family.
Now Meredith is dead and Stephanie has to do it all, do it all l!!!!!
She took time away from her work to fly to Italy, to meet laywers, to learn the ropes of law in foreign language, while trying to hold her regular job and give extra help to her devastated broken family.
This murder has taken years out of her life. Her dad is old, her mom's in poor health.
Stephanie had to learn Italian law, the culture, the various defendants and their hired guns, and to juggle many unpleasant and heavy events, the funeral, the first trial, the Hellmann travesty, expensive travel to Florence and Perugia, media interviews while the news on TV swirl around her about her sister's death. No doubt she has been traumatized herself by this nightmare, maybe even lost and confused. How many tears has she cried in secret? She is stoic in public, dignified. Unlike Edda or Amanda or the Mellox nuts.
She saw the look on Meredith's face at the coroner's in Italy. She saw the eyes of determination in Meredith's dead face, the final look of courage.
She took courage from that. She refuses to see Meredith put six feet under while her killers cavort on two continents getting their photos and books sold and saying they did nothing wrong. Effrontery, lies.
Lyle organized a run to help raise money for a medical charity after the murder.

Get real. Rudy would have scattered glass all over the place to the ground beneath. He was a total slob.

Decent of you.

You said it.
Curt probably helped hide the loot, like he hid his from Edda.

Right.

I'm astonished. The Kerchers are truly noble.

He does seem to have heart.

Ghislane400,
don't ever change. Stay intense. We need it.

No, you are. And related to Amanda Knox.

If she coulda controlled her aggression she might have achieved something.
IMO< She does have some talents, and health and good looks. She has a natural stubborn streak which might be turned to good causes. maybe it's just obstinacy or perverseness
She hurt herself and others because she was determined to act out her revenge and anger. Her rule is defiance.
Her father's absence wounded her. Her contrary streak started at Prep school.

That would be you, you inexperienced pampered little pastoral fool. The subject matter deals with a real life situation not some milk toast BBC bulls**t. Grow up and stay out of the way of people who know more than thumb suckers like you.

You need to reread what I wrote. I did not say anything about retrying the case. I said the "evidence" needs to be reevaluated by US judicial standards. (Actually Italy is signatory to those standards, but has chosen to neglect them.) If indeed incriminating, solid, uncorrupted (a very big word in this case) evidence implicates her in the murder, I expect she will be arrested and sent to Italy.
As far her support, you are precisely right. Contrary to what the bleating, sheep herded European public thinks, most Americans don't give a fig about her. In case you have not notice Americans hate violent criminals. If they think she is one, she will get no sympathy.
The big question is "Who thinks she is innocent and why and why are they supporting her?" I am not going to answer that question for you but instead give you some direction. I would say the media is behind her. hmmmmm. Does the media really want to protect a murderer? hmmmmm. The combined "Corporate Media" in the United States is worth about 140 billion dollars, give or take 25 .b How much will it cost for the "Media" to do fund a thorough, complete, comprehensive investigation, including moot trial and mock court room? 3 Million? 4 Million?. The US media sneezes that amount during lunch on any given day.
Who is the media? Who has represented her to the media? Kindly, you need to pay attention.
The American lawyer Roy Cohn, arguably one of the most successful winning lawyers in US history once said "It is not what you know, but who you know." and "I haven't opened a law book in 25 years". That applies in Europe, also and especially. We just haven't gotten out of the back waters yet.
Y'all Europeans better not piss off the wrong people while you are beating up this little school girl. Her little dog Toto, might have teeth.

The American Courts will also be told what is wrong with the case by her legal counselors. I wonder who that could be?...hmmmmmm.
It is interesting that Europeans think that bureaucrats who can barely keep awake at work dictate to the US Federal Court system, or anybody for that matter. Given their historical acquiescence to totalitarian and dictatorial power it is easy to understand.

Yo dummy, that is why the case will be handed to a US Federal Judge.

They will most certainly evaluate the evidence. The denial of extradition of British citizens to the United States will of course be the working model.

The treaty may end up trashed. For the reasons you cited, it most certainly should be. No problem. We can just hire contractors like Blackwater (think Yemen, or Pakistan, I guarantee you Americans will not tread more lightly in Italy, if that is what Italians really want) to get fugitives out of swamplands like Italy.

We have not seen any extradition request yet. I don't expect we will.

One can have sympathy for the Kerchers. They do not deserve any respect given their behavior. The simply do not want to own up to the fact that Meredith was ill prepared to deal with certain situations. They did not teach her that little girls should not get involved with criminals or criminal enterprises and she very clearly was. (In all fairness AK and RS were ill prepared also)They will not get "closure" (James Ellroy, :"Closure is the stupidest word in the English language."). If indeed they get their wish of railroading AK, they will have their lack of whatever compounded with greater contempt.

Dershowitz also contradicted himself. He comes across as very insincere. Gee, lawyers seem to have that problem.

Yo, you need to be brought up to speed. The current "judge" has stated in his "analysis" (excuse me, I am having trouble with these very limiting words) that Amanda delivered the killing blow. Witches are out and MMA contestants are in. Toilet turds .... out.
We are trying to keep up with this storm of bullsh*t.

there were no large amounts of any of the assailants' DNA. the evidence is real and exists. there was no sex game theory and BTW the motive does not matter and cannot be proved (it is impossible since it is only in the sick minds of the 3 murderers). The evidence, all of it, points to Knox, Sollecito and Guede. That is the real world, which is where the Judges and most of the public live.

I have not and never have spouted "venom." everyone with any sense and common decency can see you for exactly what you are.

it really is hard to read what you write, since you write like a European pretending to be an American, with all due respect.

My point was that extradition hearings do not argue on the basis of evidence, or what I wrote, revisit the 'evidence'. Nor will the European Court.

Even if they did, what makes you think any court will find for Amanda Knox? The evidence of her innocence is so underwhelming.

That will be when her conviction is confirmed next year. If you don't know how the system works, should you be writing like you know what you're saying?

The case for her guilt is based on utterly corrupted evidence. I.e. you are entirely wrong.
Reread, that is spelt R-E-R-E-A-D what I have written before. This here 'xtradition treaty, Bubba, is gonna start a sh*t storm if this here miss is sent to jail by a bunch of anti-Merican commie pus*ies and their pus8fied commie court.
Any clearer? Bubba?

It is the absence of fingerprints, not DNA, that shows evidence of a clean up, as the Nencini report clearly indicates, or have the friends of Amanda Knox not read it yet?

The partial footprints made in blood also point to a clean up. DNA itself is so very rarely found in a crime scene, and as the report makes clear, there is ample evidence that Knox and Sollecito were there during the murder, and ample evidence of their DNA on the murder weapon, and the bra clasp.

The next debate will be about the Nencini Report. I hope the defense will have better arguments than lame excuses of the type made here.

Italy does not need a conviction for an extradition request. They simply need good sound evidence, which does not exist. (I do in fact know something about law, having been responsible for enforcing US laws.)

When even American courts have a hard time accepting the likes of Budowle and Hampikian as expert witnesses, I think you might be betting on the wrong horse, Mr. Steak House :)

Which laws? Sanitation, to wipe out your mouth? :)

Since when can you apply for extradition without a conviction?

Tell your lovely Andrea to check out Nina Burleigh opinion of her.

Hogwash. They are vindictive and not very bright.

Funny, but that's just what the judge said about Amanda Knox.

Why should she care?

Good luck ever getting your hands on Edward Snowden and Julian Assange then.

Remember Elian Gonzalez? Even if a Seattle Federal Court gives her a temporary reprieve, a higher appeals court will rule against her, and Federal Marshals will find her hiding in her mom's closet.

Maybe she needs to start sussing out cabins in Idaho already.

I wonder why there is so much vitriol directed at journalists simply doing their job, and reporting fairly instead of regurgitating PR hand outs or talking points memos handed in by their editorial offices.

But things always return to balance. It must suck for the fans of convicted murderers to see movies being made based on Barbie Nadeau, and BBC documentaries (co-produced by NBC News) based on Andrea Vogt's research.

That's the way it is. Poorly written books made by talentless writers don't sell enough copies to make a profit on $4 million advances, but the work of real journalists end up being shown all over the world.

Hey stupid dumbsh*t, look up the US extradition treaty with Italy. There is a specific section dealing with those who have not been convicted.

We will eventually. Snowden owes his ba**s to Putin. Apparently he hasn't read any Russian history. He crosses Putin God F**kin Lord!! It won't be pretty.

Interesting she is fence sitting. Maybe she is getting wise to something.

Apparently, you have trouble reading, "period".

If they were going to clean it up, why on earth would they have left all the evidence of Rudy Guede? The stupid logic or lack of logic here is remarkable.

Elian was not a US citizen.

In general I don't regard it as plausible to have above average intelligence and not realise that you can't meet up with a stranger and murder inside 20 minutes. Nencini has incorporated Naruto, so he has them at Sollecit's till 9 26. TOD is actually way earlier than this, and fortunately I presume an independent pathologist in the states will get involved, showing her undigested meal was genuinely still in stomach. In fact it is obvious Rudy was inside when she arrived home, and stress immediately halted the already very late gastric emptying. Andrea knows all this, but is stuck with her mysterious posturing to keep the copy rolling. Hey, that's showbiz I guess.

And the Italian judge is a sh*thead. Italians in their ridiculous unprofessional practice of law have demonstrated very well why they have been "victims of history". Given that some extremely good generals were lawyers, it is easy to see that some very poor military leaders correlate well with a population of poor practitioners of law. Where law and national determination and integrity integrate and the relations are paramount, Italy is ...well...rather pathetic. Pandering to terrorists, being bitches to Nazis, Stockholmed by Communists and Muslims...the country is shameful.

Poor little Amanda, if she had just yelled at the police "Allah Akbar" or worn a head scarf and claimed she was Al-Queda, they all would have run.

Never, ever.. give up on him??

They will just prove that they are sh*theads. That works.

Anyone who can't quote the relevant section and language clearly is just someone too unable to read or interpret an international treaty.

I'm saying you're wrong, since that doesn't apply to Knox. So do your homework before you try to waste my time.

He'll never return. And Knox will be extradited.

There was more political pressure on the situation from Cuban - Americans than there ever will be for Amanda Knox.

Yet I turn out to be so often "right" :)

He thinks he's god so he must have the brains to realise when he reads the Nencini report in English that he's been sold a crock. That's the best I can do meantime to explain myself. He might even dismantle his purulent little hate site.

I am not going to look it up. You do it, Gomer.

You immoral scum.

You are a typical Knox supporter - vicious, immoral, racist and incredibly ill-educated and stupid. If anybody had the slightest doubt about her guilt, people like you confirm it.

You are an idiot and a fool. Go back to your pastoral fairyland and read some romantic literature. Leave real life problems to people strong enough to deal with them. Weak = immoral. Fool.

Go to hell ignoramus. The Kerchers deserve sympathy. They do not deserve respect.

All hail to US covert ops!

Like I said, Idiot.

In Italy, journalists are "compliant, lazy and cowed". Thank you Nina Burleigh. Don't eat your pablum too quickly little children....you will choke.

Pampered, foolish child. Responsible people should never count on you. Go suck your thumb. Idiot.

forget it.

You have certainly hit upon something. For the longest time I treated AKs detractors as "emotionally deficient, or challenged". By this I mean the type of social misfit that enjoys the torment of their betters, which is of course easy to discern in this foolishness. Now however I am coming to the realization that they are just plain stupid. They are unwilling to look at certain realities because it offends their pampered, sheltered and undignified existences. Many just cannot comprehend logic, which is a separate matter entirely. Don't waste too much time with them. It would be like teaching physics to a bunch of chimpanzees.

Yeah, Amanda sliced her roommate's neck from ear to ear and let a burglar rape her and not flush because she complained about her bad hygiene. That is about as plausible as the pregnant girl who flies to Kenya to have a baby so just so he won't be American cause who needs all those perks. This stuff is nuts.

No no he hasn't he hasn't used ANY reason nor logic Meredith HAS had justice. The murderer has pled guilty and in jail.

And Rudy is back on the dance floor.

If you believe "the knife was in the room" that is a bad starting point for discussion. Raffaele's DNA has every right and reason to be in the cottage. Guede's does not.

As for evidence of Guede in Filomena's room, it is hard to compare that room with the room where a bloody murder did occur - and foot prints of Guede are found and nothing of Knox or Sollecito. Perhaps you believe that they selectively cleaned the room although there is no evidence of such. Perhaps they forgot to leave evidence of Guede in Filomena's room in their selective cleanup of evidence. That should be a sarcastic remark, except that it follows your logic.

But think outside the square, haven't you people got a vacancy for an efficient executioner?

Oklahoma is just one state over.

The Kerchers owe you nor anyone any explanation. Nor are any of us interested in your judgement.

Go & stay on IIP where spitting hate towards the Kercher family & Meredith is encouraged.

You're funny.

They sure as hell do owe us some explanations. They have powered this prosecution and I want to know what their attitude is to Rudy Guede. Especially his release. Now go to hell. And I am staying put.

Blackwater don't exist & haven't existed since 2009, they kind of F**ked up in Baghdad in 2007.

Regardless, I really do hope you believe that 'Academi' would even accept a contract to snatch Knox from a Nato alliance country. Please tell me you really believe this?

You're funny, Jack.

Nope, they don't Jack. They aren't interested in a Knoxophile sycophant.

Time for your Bruce tum tum rub down on IIP.

You're funny Jack, you make me laugh.

Then they don't get my respect in this clown show. Sympathy, yes, but that only goes so far.

Im certain they wont be bothered in the slightest, whether you respect them or not. After all Jack, you're a nobody.

You're funny Jack, you make me laugh.

Her neck wasn't sliced from ear to ear. She was stabbed in both sides of her neck with 2 different knives.

You would know this though, if you had respect for yourself & an innocent murdered girl.

On forums, Jack is brave, stupid & nonsensical'. In real life, Jack is a coward, stupid & nonsensical.

You're silly Jack, you make me laugh.

If Foxy did the deed then she needs to do her bang-up like any other criminal!!! Getting bored of hearing about this shite! And watching Solleshito all over her like a rash while the investigation was taking place was mind numbingly nausea inducing....was like watching a dog licking its 80llocks!!! If she had any sense of decency or any class at all she would have been a little more reserved in her behaviour knowing she was the centre of so much media attention at the time. Shows shes just another airhead on an education grant from some poor tax payer...unless her parents were actually the ones throwing their money down the toilet.

obviously you don't know anything. no one has pled guilty to this murder. all 3 murderers pled not guilty.

she's a sociopath IMO. she was taking a year off, taking a language course, a course practically anyone can get into, and not part of her degree credits at the University in Washington, not sponsored by any U.. school and no education grant.

Meredith deserves justice but she won't get it if they pin this crime on an innocent person, and Knox didn't do it. "Italian Justice" is an oxymoron.

Italy will ask for extradition and the US court will tell them to go to hell. They had her, they let her go. Double jeopardy. The US doesn't allow a court more than one bite of the apple. She'll have to stay stateside, but that beats doing time for a crime she did not commit. Italy's justice system is a joke and they are incompetent when it comes to forensics. Disgraceful.

By US standards, she was convicted, then that was overturned, and she was released. By US standards--and that is what US goes by when they make extradition decisions--she's been exonerated. Italy will never see her again.

No it won't. She will not be returned because ITALY LET HER GO. They overturned her conviction. One bite of the apple in the US system--no do overs. The only way Italy will see her again is on television.

No it was not in sanitation. However, I wish, being as how sanitation is one of the most important jobs of a functioning society. I know, you haven't gotten that far in your education or awareness. The individuals and companies whose malfeasance I addressed ate little people like you for lunch.

Most of all, what is the intent, (Ronald Dworkin, Professor of Law NSY, visiting Prof in England) of the Law? The intent of the law is to protect Americans from tyrants with attitude. Which can easily be demonstrated is what A. K. is dealing with here.

Yeah, well my opinion is one of many in the US and we think they are over the top. No they are not "dignified". The are absorbed by their ego defense mechanisms.

And you are a stupid clown.

Clown.

Stop it, Jack. You're too funny.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh

You're so brave, Jack, show us your muscles.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh

"You're funny Jack, you make me laugh."
You have actually brought attention to something important. For AKs detractors, this entire murder and subsequent trials of AK are a source of great amusement. Interesting that it takes someone's death for you to be so amused.

Yes, we know you find the whole "Murder of Meredith Ketcher" thing very amusing. I wonder if her family is so amused. I hope they have a good laugh at your so signaling.

We know you support 2 convicted murderers. We also know you are friends with people who call Merediths family Nazis. No taking the moral high ground here Jack, you fail, again.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh

You're silly Jack. You make us all laugh.

U.S. Justice is an oxymoron.

....We started this exchange talking about Rudy Guede. ..... You are still on AK. Fool.

Your support for '2' convicted murderers. This is why me & my mates laugh at you. Please never stop posting Jack, keep them coming.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh.

Meredith's family does not want to own up to the fact that she was engaged in felonious activity which invited opportunistic assault. Her murder was like 80% of those in the United States. She was engaged in crime with contraband that was worth thousands. Rudy moved on it knowing she would not call the police for fear of being busted.

And you are supporting Rudy Guede, the physical murderer.

This is an old Knoxophile ploy, Jack. Don't you keep up to date with orders over at IIP. Lyn advised against this accusation many months ago. Its also another reason why people laugh at you.

Silly Jack.

Making sick comments doesn't make you look tough Jack, it makes you look sad. We all know this & its why we laugh at you.

Silly Jack, you make us laugh.

You are not addressing the issue at hand. You have to tell me where exactly Rudy Guede is in all this and why does he deserve less than 7 years in the can. You are evading the issue. I was going to say you are evasive but that would imply you have some kind of talent. You don't. I want from you a full accounting of Rudy Guede and what he is due.

There is no issue at hand, you attack the family of Meredith as though it were normal behaviour. We see through you & laugh at you, because, you're a joke. Its simple & your simple.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh.

There most certainly is an issue you inexperience and stupid dimwit. The Kerchers have driven this prosecution as if it is "normal". I have sympathy for them but respect is another matter. They don't want to look at or accept the most glaring facts of the case: Meredith's "boyfriend" enabled Rudy Guede. He and his friends engaged Meredith in felonious activity. This does not make Meredith a horrible person. She did not deserve her fate. She was naïve as was AK. I am sure she as a great person otherwise.
In another scenario, the police could have come to that house at an opportune time and Meredith would have been charged with aiding and abetting an illegal narcotics enterprise. It Italy that would be about 10 years.

Just had dinner with my Italy connection. He has been a resident there for 40 years. He and his believe AK is innocent.

Good for you Jack, hope you enjoyed the dinner, thats 1 more AK supporter, at this rate you'll be up to you, Bruce, Michelle, Jim, Steve, Doug & Annella, oh & of course, your Italian connection.

What a funny thing to report on, Jack..

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh.

Lol - stop it Jack. You're killing us here.

You're silly Jack, you make us laugh.

Sorry for coming late to the party, the comments made by dmontnz and Jack D. Montana are mainly offensive and in summary are disposable throw-away comments, other than that not worthy of my contempt. The provisionally successful Appeal has been (IMHO correctly) overturned with the Nencini Ruling and if there are gaping holes and mistakes with the evidence this will no doubt be raised at the stage of the Third Appeal. Many of us are in our respective camps as to whether Knox and Sollecito are guilty along with Guede, other than refuting inaccurate comments to my mind it is just a waste of valuable time engaging with some who appear intent on being as rude or as disruptive as possible.

they will ask for extradition and the US will abide by the treaty and extradite. there has been no double jeopardy. double jeopardy is not allowed in Italy which the US knows since they agreed to a treaty that abides by the laws of ITALY for convictions. She will do time for a crime she did commit (like she has already done since she is a convicted felon). The USA's justice system is a joke and they are incompetent when it comes to forensics, so they will respect the better system in Italy.

Dont piss off the Kercher Army from the UK. THEY WANT AMANDA! WHo cares if Rudy sexually assaulted MK and stabbed her? Their pretty young girl is dead, so the only justice would be to destroy the other pretty young girls life too, even if she is innocent. No matter. An eye for an eye type of thing.They will just pretend she is guilty and that would be good too. They will FEEL better. I hope Amanda takes her money and flees to Morocco and never comes back. She will be safer there. And they don't extradite.

just funny how they don't give two shits about the actual murderer.

Well the Kerchers have pissed some of us off. They don't want to own up to their daughters criminal participation in growing marijuana, (court record, by the way) a serious felony in in Italy (ignored in court record by the way, displaying the court's blaring incompetence). That was the thing that made her vulnerable to Rudy Guede. I have addressed this subject elsewhere. They will not feel better because there are those of us that will utterly disparage them for being so vindictive and shallow. They can take their "ritual sacrifice" elsewhere or we will lay waste to their lack of moral intelligence and integrity. And that also goes for their silly UK "love' mob that is so enchanted with them.

Too bad you find the truth offensive. History replete with tragic failures like you.

Finally, none of these fools have any answer to a rather simple question. We are still waiting.

Upon reviewing relevant State Department and Justice Dpartment documents, the "evidence" will most certainly be reviewed by a Grand Jury and a Federal Judge, along with the legal team of the SD. The Italians will be told that they must sent the prosecutors and police to defend the evidence. They will also be told that in the United States prosecutors and police who suppress exculpatory evidence go to jail. They will drop it.

I shall heed my own advice to others - zilch from me, other than 'have a good day.'

I can't resist - The lack of logic here is remarkable - Meredith Kercher was murdered. They cleaned up both villas (not so well mind) in a desperate attempt to clear themselves of any involvement when the account they have given of their dinner time, computer activity etc have been found to be wrong. Why not frame a black guy? Why not frame two black guys? Oh I forgot.........

Says he who is talking absolute BS if we refer to the subsequent Rulings of Judges far more learned than he/she.

Isn't it.

Why leave Rudy's traces?? He would tell the police they were involved.

Will be signing off. I just wanted to let you Brits know that you are under a very critical eye also. Be careful

It wasn't advice. Just a statement of fact.

Apparently, it has not occurred to you that each and every case is evaluated on its own merits. Kind of a big concept for a fool like you and your minions on this board to get their mind around.

Judges who utterly ignore forensics. Truly contemptible as are their minions such as yourself.

Well I am glad to see that you are not all along for this ride. It just looks a certain way from the internet. I was really disappointed, I always so loved the British. Except Victoria Beckham :)

Grand juries are not convened to review extradition requests from other countries. And the State Department already reviewed the case. If they had any objections regarding the process, the embassy would have said so. She'll be extradited one day, Raffaele Sollecito will make sure of that :)

Each case is indeed decided on its merits. Since I studied it and you have not, maybe that's why I've been right about it so far?

Sorry to see you don't have any 'minions' around that agree with you.

Perhaps. But why point that out? Just curious. Because, of course, you know that it wouldn't matter if US justice were great or non-existent. This is about a controversial decision in Italy. So... please explain the relevance, yes?

Again, Heather... I don't mean to pick on you, but I find false appeals to logic infuriating. How does anything you cite above indicate sociopathology? The number of students who follow the same path is practically infinite.

Sigh. Again in this forum with irrelevance. If JM's point was rephrased "properly" for your standards, would not his original point still apply?

To say...

"Yeah, Amanda stabbed her roommate's neck in both sides with two different knives and let a burglar rape her and not flush because she complained about her bad hygiene."

...sounds just as implausible. And to say it so it would fit the court's suggested scenario is even more ridiculous...

"Yeah, Amanda arranged to have two other people help her stab her roommate's neck in both sides with two different knives and let a burglar rape her and not flush because she complained about her bad hygiene."

That last scenario would be the most accurate, according to the court. It would also fit your re-characterization, made presumably out of respect for Meredith.

But consider, if in this last scenario, we're now meant, per the court, to believe that (a) the whole "sex game gone wrong" theory and that (b) it was a fight over money that night that sparked the events.

Forget for a moment that the vast majority of people are not likely to stab someone else over money and consider, what's the likelihood of convincing three people to act spontaneously to stab someone 47 times and to commit rape? Certainly, gruesome things have happened elsewhere in history.

But this is a question of what's likely HERE, in this situation. And this is simply not the most likely course of events. Even if Knox is/was a sociopath, it's highly unlikely that she would find the one guy in town who's as nuts as her and who, after knowing even Knox for a very short time, would so instantly be convinced to be as passionately violent to Kercher.

did I say anything I cited indicted sociopathology? Nope. clarifying that she wasn't on an education grant. Shite Fart Drain's description of her odd behaviour fits with a sociopath IMO.

Italian's justice it NOT an oxymoron. that is the point.

Knob

Lost interest after Sigh. Speak more slowly.

I repeat the question... how does any characteristic of U.S. justice... have any relationship to the quality or lack thereof in Italy? THAT is the point.

The only way for you to prove that Italians have a just system is to discuss... wait for it... the Italian system. What other countries do isn't related in any way whatsoever.

My bad, I guess. I assumed that when you made a character assessment... and then followed it with points that certainly seemed like you were trying to prove something about her character... that you would, as most people might, intend for the two to go together.

It's obvious from this and other replies that you, TAW, are willfully ignorant and, worse, glib about it. How sad for you.

This guy, TAW, is clearly an ignorant ass and a troll JM... best not to waste your time.

I have come to that conclusion. Thanks.

Get a life helmet.

You're welcome.

should be a paragraph between first sentence and then the rest.

HeywoodJa is from the U.S. and needs to look at his own system before inanely criticizing Italy's with nothing whatsoever to support it. That is the point.

Then I'm afraid it's a point poorly made. Defending one system by saying another system is no good is like trying to argue that the sky is red because dirt is yellow. Zero rational overlap between the two points.

Whether HeywoodJa is reflective about the U.S. system is equally irrelevant. If you want to make the point that the Italian system is good, you'll need to show good results of the Italian system. Period.

yes, I agree. it is a point poorly made by HeywoodJa. If this ridiculous poster wants to make the point that the Italian system is no good, he will need to show it. period.

my point in fact has been made then, and it all goes back to the stupid post made by HeywoodJa. It is not on me to defend anything; I just replied in sarcasm to a stupid post. You must think HeywoodJaw made a well-reasoned and supported point since you have no criticism for it, but criticize mine instead LOL. I know exactly where you are coming from.

What I think, in case you're really interested, is that HeywoodJ made a statement about a case which occurred in Italy, with a widely debated outcome, and then drew a conclusion of his own, based on that statement.

What I further think is that, in response, you made an irrelevant statement about a different country's justice system which, in this context, has no relevance. And still doesn't. Nor does mentioning it address anything, positively or negatively, in the post to which it responds.

That is all.

Clearly Heather, you're not understanding your error. And I'm afraid you're not willing to try. So go ahead, have the final word... just promise it will be a sensible one.

clearly Jackster12 you are not understanding your bias. and i'm afraid you're not willing to try. I am not defending anything; just pointing out a stupid post.
Good luck to you.

No, HeywoodJa's conclusion was not well-reasoned or supported. That is obvious. My "irrelevant statement" as I previously said was obviously sarcasm, and in fact it does address the first stupid post negatively.

"The Italian system doesn’t exactly come out badly compared to say that of the US. Surprise, surprise/

Comparatively speaking, Italy has a much lower crime rate than the US, a much lower murder rate, a highly professional un-elected police hierarchy, a much smaller court system, and a miniscule number of prison cells.

The mafias are now mostly backed into small pockets..

For reasons to do with Italian history pre-WW II the system keeps politicians very much at arms length.

Almost every other justice system in the world comes under the Prime Minister’s or equivalent’s control, and it his or her party that appoints the judges. The Italian system comes under the separately-elected and non-partisan President of the Republic.

All judges and all prosecutors follow a career path laden with checks and balances, learning exercises and tests. (At this the highly-competent and impartial Dr Mignini excels and he will soon be the attorney-general of a region.)

The system is extremely pro-defendant - probably the most pro-defendant in the whole world.

The number of Italians who are in prison at any one time is proportionally only about 1/5 that of the United States."

"The Italian system doesn’t exactly come out badly compared to say that of the US. Surprise, surprise/

Comparatively speaking, Italy has a much lower crime rate than the US, a much lower murder rate, a highly professional un-elected police hierarchy, a much smaller court system, and a miniscule number of prison cells.

The mafias are now mostly backed into small pockets..

For reasons to do with Italian history pre-WW II the system keeps politicians very much at arms length.

Almost every other justice system in the world comes under the Prime Minister’s or equivalent’s control, and it his or her party that appoints the judges. The Italian system comes under the separately-elected and non-partisan President of the Republic.

All judges and all prosecutors follow a career path laden with checks and balances, learning exercises and tests. (At this the highly-competent and impartial Dr Mignini excels and he will soon be the attorney-general of a region.)

The system is extremely pro-defendant - probably the most pro-defendant in the whole world.

The number of Italians who are in prison at any one time is proportionally only about 1/5 that of the United States."

The three tier system in Italy is recognised by the USA. Amanda has been tried once, in three sections, which resulted in guilty, innocent, guilty. If after the SC confirmation/acquittal, the Italians then attempt to reopen the case, then this is double jeopardy.

Lets play spot the non-European who clearly knows Jack about the ECHR....

If Rudy was convicted in Britain, he would have got approx 20 years to life but with a min before parole of about 7 to 10 years. If he was a good boy in a UK prison, he would be out in 7 years. Italy is quite similar in its sentences to the rest of Europe. Not saying its right or wrong but its consistent with other countries.

Well isn't that nice. He will murder another young woman the next time he dopes up and gets horny.