David Starkey: Rochdale sex ring is Pakistani 'cultural norm'

David Starkey historian

Historian courts yet more controversy calling for ethnic minorities to be made 'English citizens'

LAST UPDATED AT 09:03 ON Fri 11 May 2012

TV HISTORIAN David Starkey yesterday described the largely Pakistani gang jailed on Tuesday for sexually exploiting young girls as "acting within their cultural norms". The Daily Telegraph reports that Starkey said "nobody ever explained" to the men that women could not be treated in this way.

Speaking at a conference for over 100 private school headteachers in Brighton, the historian said the gang's actions were evidence of "what happens when [a country like Britain] has no sense of common identity".

He called on schools to teach English history to ethnic minorities so that "they are ... first and foremost English citizens and English men." Starkey suggested that schools teach pupils the origins of modern feminism and the emancipation of women as part of English history.

"If you want to look at what happens when you have no sense of common identity, look at Rochdale and events in Rochdale, where you have groups that are absolutely and mutually uncomprehending.

"Those men were acting within their own cultural norms. Nobody ever explained to them that the history of women in Britain was once rather similar to that in Pakistan and it had changed."

In the past year, Starkey has made a number of controversial interventions regarding race and nationality. Last summer, he responded to a question about the cause of the English rioting by saying: "What has happened is that a substantial section of the chavs... have become black. The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion."

Last month the historian came under fire for comparing Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmon to Hitler. "If you think about it, Alex Salmond is a democratic Caledonian Hitler," said Starkey, best known for his BBC series about Henry VIII, Mind of a Tyrant.

"Although some would say Hitler was more democratically elected." He added: "[For Salmond] the English, like the Jews, are everywhere." · 

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Starkey is spot on as usual.

Henry VIII, Mind of a Tyrant was a Channel 4 series not BBC.

Well said David.  Absolutely right and not afraid to tell it like it is.

Does he believe that gay men act within cultural norms?

David Starkey is spot on. I could not agree more. I for one am sick to death of trying not to seem racists when I actually can't stand the way immigrants abuse this country. Enough is enough, either be and behave in a western civilised manner or get go back to the 3rd world country you came from. That especially goes for the massive influx of Africans as well

As for the Twitter comments below. It is not racist, it is standing up and saying enough is enough. We are in this mess because we have not been firm with immigrants in the UK. 

I cite Godwin's Law. Mr Starkey, you lose.

If only other cultures would be prepared to adopt the attitude of 'When in Rome' when they come to live here, we would not have a problem with racism.  Multiculturalism can only work when the cultures concerned are educationally, emotionally and, well, culturally compatible.
 
Unfortunately, the silly and naive seem to believe in a utopia where everybody must be made to think and act the same way.  All very nicey, nicey, until you realise that this is exactly what Hitler was trying to achieve.  

The tyranny of the professionally insulted and politically correct has surely reached its zenith.  It is a sad situation when anyone who disagrees with their particular beliefs is casually and lazily labelled as a right wing, fascist, when, in fact, the same can be said of them.

There are a wealth of cultures throughout the world and all of them have something to absorb and learn from.  The reality is that they are simply not all interchangeable with one another.  I for one think that this great and rich diversity is a good thing.  We just need to understand that oil and water don't mix.

Is it not time that dual nationality was abolished? Self evidently this facility provides an escape avenue for criminality. Those with this dual status have only to move from one of their national homes to the other and they are home and dry. It should be conditional on anyone seeking to aquire British citizenship for them to simultaneously renounce their previous status.

What will it actually take for the snivelling leftist apologists who have got us in to this mess to admit their culpability? They are as responsible for what happened to those poor young girls as the vermin that abused them.

 In Muslim society, teenage girls enjoy a structured home life and the protection of their fathers and male relatives.  In our society, young girls are allowed to roam around, unaccompanied, leaving them vulnerable to predatory sexual attacks, by men, of all colours and persuasions.  Firstly, we need to offer more protection to young vulnerable girls.  Secondly, yes, we need to open a dialogue between racial groups who are mutually uncomprehending.

"racist and inflammatory drivel" (Dr Richard Murphy (Twitter quote)) - nothing of the sort, Doctor Murphy!   It should not have escaped your attention, in levelling such a sweeping and - yes - inflammatory accusation at Dr Starkey that he has just as much right to voice his opinions as you enjoy;  some of us might not agree with him, others might - in this instance it must be said that those of the Left - leaning element in British society are ENTIRELY predictable in their response to Dr Starkey's measured comments.

We suffer the blight of "multiculturalism" in this country, which has been foist upon us by unrepresentative politicians, who have lent more than the casual ear to the Left for far too long - this latest manifestation of that political folly merits an honest and forthright appraisal - Dr Starkey has stepped up to the plate to deliver that appraisal on behalf of  (I am happy to guess) more than half of Britain's population (INCLUDING a significant element of Muslims).

"TV HISTORIAN David Starkey yesterday described the largely Pakistani gang jailed on Tuesday for sexually exploiting young girls as "acting within their cultural norms".

actually this is slanderous. I wonder if there is a limit to the amount he can be sued...

Assume for the sake of argument that sex with teenage girls is
integral to "Islamic" society. I am not convinced that it necessarily
is, and at the very least it is certainly not peculiar thereto. But
assume that it is.

Is a non-Islamic culture really in any position
to claim the moral high ground if its girls, even given that, are known
to be more readily available due to their sexually saturated culture
and their near-total lack of supervision by parents, other older
relatives and the wider community?

"What we are fighting" in
Afghanistan might come out of this very badly. But, at best, "what we
are fighting for" does not come out of it any better.

Starkey is a mad deluded fool. His statement is Gross Slander against a people. I ask Starkey (& any bigot who happens to agree with him) the following:
1) is Child abuse the 'cultural norm' amongst English ethnic Whites? Because Child Abuse IS largely committed by whites.
2) Is pedophilia the 'cultural norm' amongst christian preists? Because an awful lot of young boys were raped by pious Christian preists !!
How dare Starkey defame an entire community because of tiny gang of criminals, are there not criminals amongst the White communities?
How irresponsible, dumb and sheer ignorant David Starkey is. He is worse than the EDL or BNP, as he is supposed to be educated.
And for the idiots who agree with him, I say this : the only spot that Starkey has hit, is the evil racist black spot in your dark hearts, where such vile bigotry erupts from.

O shut up you twit - we are more civilised than you!
We have proper family life, and we work hard, unlike you lazy English entitlement seeking idle sods.
We don't throw our kids out of the house when they are 16 years old, and let them become drug addicts and prositutes.
You English can't be bothered with Family life, cos you are too busy getting pissed every night in the pub.
So to he'll with your crap English culture, don't tell us immigrants how to behave. Our culture is better than yours.

Starkey is a mad deluded fool. His statement is Gross Slander against a people. I ask Starkey (& any bigot who happens to agree with him) the following:
1) Is Child abuse the 'cultural norm' amongst English ethnic Whites? Because Child Abuse IS largely committed by whites.
2) Is pedophilia the 'cultural norm' amongst christian preists? Because an awful lot of young boys were raped by pious Christian preists !!
How dare Starkey defame an entire community because of tiny  gang of criminals, are there not criminals amongst the White  communities?
How irresponsible, dumb and sheer ignorant David Starkey is. He is worse than the EDL or BNP, as he is supposed to be educated.
And for the idiots who agree with him, I say this : the only spot that Starkey has hit, is the evil racist black spot in your dark hearts, where such vile bigotry erupts from.

Starkey is a mad deluded fool. His statement is Gross Slander against a people. I ask Starkey (& any bigot who happens to agree with him) the following:
1) is Child abuse the 'cultural norm' amongst English ethnic Whites? Because Child Abuse IS largely committed by whites.
2) Is pedophilia the 'cultural norm' amongst christian preists? Because an awful lot of young boys were raped by pious Christian preists !!
How dare Starkey defame an entire community because of tiny  gang of criminals, are there not criminals amongst the White  communities?
How irresponsible, dumb and sheer ignorant David Starkey is. He is worse than the EDL or BNP, as he is supposed to be educated.
And for the idiots who agree with him, I say this : the only spot that Starkey has hit, is the evil racist black spot in your dark hearts, where such vile bigotry erupts from.

 I'm sorry but he is simply wrong. I'm a british pakistani, born and bred in Rochdale for over 25 years. The simple truth is even our little 'community' has many sub-cultures. We're divided by castes, sects, class, upbringing, age group, level aswell as class of education (both western and islamic), area (yes even your little postcode area makes a difference) etc. Walk around the town centre at midnight and you'll spot Pakistani men in shalwar kameez going into town to drink and gamble. That's a sub-culture within a sub-culture right there. This 'rape gang' had nothing tod o with the rest of us. It's not like they asked us for our approval. They did it, because the opportunity was there and they Could.....until they got caught, their religion or culture had nothing to do with it and if you think they wouldn't target a girl if she was 'pakistani muslim'...nonsense, just look at what goes on in the streets of pakistan.

This is utter tripe. Utter tripe. You've got homeless children all over Asia and africa, getting beat up, raped, sold into slavery and killed....does that mean everyone lives that way there? you shouldn't generalise and nor should anyone else.
Also, im pakistani as i mentioned in another post, why do so many pakistani parents turn a blind eye when their sons drug deal and live a criminal lifestyle aswell as enjoy the proceeds? it's because a lot of people are motivated by greed and religion is only employed when and where it suits them. Basically you've got hypocrites in every society/culture. Again, don't generalise. Also..it's people like you who don't belong here. If you're so quick to attack this country, why are you here? there are plenty of positives about british culture, tolerance is one of the major ones.

 rome wasn't built in a day......

The true Muslim belief coming through. Good luck with your plan, we will fight you every step of the way, ALL IMMIGRANTS OUT

For someone who is supposedly quite highly educated, his claims are ridiculously wafer-thin and based on nothing at all except his own personal opinion. Has he spoken to these people he seems to know so much about? Has he spoken to anyone from the communities which he so haphazardly labels and categorises in his own very special way? Without evidence or investigation he leaves himself open to criticism and allows whatever personal biases he may or may not hold to have free reign in the public domain, authenticated by his persona of education which is both dangerous and irresponsible. A historian should know better.

Who is 'our culture' Anzar? You probably left a violent, backward, barbaric culture to live in civilised UK. How soon you forget, you hypocrite.

if your culture so good why you here i go back to better 

I wasn't sure about Starkey's comments about black culture, but here he's hit the nail on the head. The Haditha state in two places that Mohammed married Aisha when she was six, and "accepted her into his household" (the Arabic word used means "penetrated") at the age of nine. Saudi Arabia has just raised the marriagable age of girls to ten, but many imams and Sharia lawyers (with honorable exceptions) state that a marriage can be contracted (presumably between the father and the groom) at a girl's birth. So even before we come to the "easy meat" view, we see Muslim boys as being brought up with the assumption that girls exist for sex and childbearing. Add to that ignorance of English/British culture, and you get catastrophes such as the 9-year old girls being found in forced marriages in Islington.

Anzar, as a former drugs worker I worked with "drug addicts and prostitutes" and was left depressed and dismayed by your remarks. One of the commonest pathways into addiction/prostitution is physical and sexual abuse, of the sort being doled out to British girls by people of all backgrounds; but the proportion of Muslim sex-rings being busted by the police shows how widely the practice of what in Britain is rape and paedophilia is accepted by some Islamic communities.

 well then tell me WHY you came here,if your culture is better than ours,I dont want it !!I am Perfectly happy being a white Christian GO HOME !!

This is not just nonsense it is simply absurd, the good Dr has lost his marbles !!  Rudeness seems to be a feature of his comments. We should disregard anything he says because his comments are unbalanced and simply not credible.

the only thing that dont work in England is your culture! thats why we hate you! simple really

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