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Griffin: ‘Churchill would have been a BNP member’
Six protestors arrested before BNP leader appears on ‘ultra leftist’ BBC Question Time
The leader of the BNP, Britain's ultra-right anti-immigration party, delivered what was expected of him in his much-vaunted debut on Question Time last night. Under hostile questioning from the studio audience, he said Islam was not compatible with life in Britain, denounced the BBC as "ultra leftist", suggested Winston Churchill would have been a member of the BNP were he alive today, and refered to homosexuals as "really creepy".
Six protestors were arrested and three policemen injured in protests outside Television Centre Under before Griffin took his opportunity to describe white Britons as the "indigenous" population who faced "genocide". We are the Aborigines here, he said.
He admitted having shared a platform with David Duke, former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, and defended the KKK's leaders he met as "non-violent", despite the Klan's many lynchings and other racist attacks across America's Southern states.
However, asked about the deaths of millions of Jews at the hands of the Nazis, he would only say: "I do not have a conviction for Holocaust denial."
Griffin was seated on the Question Time panel between the host, David Dimbleby, and the black American playwright Bonnie Greer. The other panelists were Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, Baroness Warsi, the Tory spokesman on community cohesion, and Chris Huhne, the Lib Dems' home affairs spokesman.
Commentators described Griffin variously as an "empty vessel" (Max Hastings) and a "kook" (David Aaronovitch) and appear evenly split on whether giving the BNP the oxygen of publicity was a good or bad thing.
If there was one "positive" to come out of the controversial programme, several wrote, it was that Griffin's appearance might force the major political parties to address the issue of immigration and attempt to win back supporters who have drifted in frustration to the BNP.
Two MPs, Labour's Frank Field and the Tory Nicholas Soames, who co-chair the Cross Party Group on Balanced Migration, wrote in the Daily Telegraph before last night's programme: "In the next 20 years, the population of the UK will rise from 61 million to 70 million and then go on rising. The bulk of that growth will be due to immigration...
"A fight-back against the BNP will only begin when the party leaders give a full pledge that our population will not breach the 65 million barrier. That would then set in train a whole series of restrictions that Balanced Migration believes crucial if our country is to regain some sense of cohesion and identity."
Max Hastings, reviewing the show for the Daily Mail, wrote: "Any party which seeks to regain popular faith in government, to drive the BNP back over the edge where it belongs, must address the huge, shamefully neglected issue of Britain's soaring population and open borders."
WHAT THEY ARE SAYING
Tom Sutcliffe, the Independent: "If you want a crude bottom line on victory and defeat you'd have to say that the principle of free speech had just about managed to stay upright while Mr Griffin had retired wounded."
John Kampfner, the Guardian: 'The programme exposed Griffin for what he is: a smartly-dressed and uncharismatic thug. [It] also cast conventional politicians in a largely favourable light which they have not enjoyed for many a month... An uncomfortable public service was performed."
Matthew Paris, the Times: "When Lady Warsi challenged him [Jack Straw] to acknowledge public fears over immigration ('there are some things politicians just have to be honest about') she had the better of him. It was of course easier for Lady Warsi as an Asian, to make this argument without fear of being called racist; but she exploited the advantage elegantly and with intelligence."
Peter Hain, the Guardian: "My argument was never about censoring or banning the BNP as BBC bosses have disingenuously maintained. It was always about handing them a badge of legitimacy and respectability by lining up Nick Griffin - who has a conviction for inciting racial hatred - alongside democratic party figures as is if he and his party were just another one of them. Those who supported the BBC just don't get it. In Griffin's words they [the BNP] have hit the 'big time', achieved the lift off they craved."
Max Hastings, Daily Mail: "By giving Nick Griffin a platform, it [Question Time] showed what an empty vessel he is. He spent the programme half-excusing, half-denying almost everything he is known to have said about other races... He says that his party's immigration policy 'is supported by 84 per cent of the British people', but was visibly stumped by the black audience member who said: 'You're committed to a white Britain. Where do you want me to go?'" ·
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The programme, I found, was interesting both for what Griffin did say and what he didn't (or wouldn't) whether or not it was a bit of a witch hunt. He knew what he'd be walking into, and agreed to take the platform.
The question of immigration does need addressing, and as the BNP seem to be the only group openly talking about limitations or any kind of control, they gain votes from many many people who are not racist. The mainstream parties need to open their eyes to this just as much as those people who have voted for the BNP need to understand the deep bigoted racism at the heart of that party's manifesto.
Hopefully people will have noticed the areas he most obviously stumbled over: the Holocaust and the idea of 'indigenous' Britain. He avoided telling us that he still denies the Holocaust took place by saying he now agreed with the figures: that so many Jews died in fighting on the Eastern Front that he believes 6 million did die. That isn't the same as saying that he believes in the genocide/gassing of prisoners.
As for 'native Britons'.......!! If we all have to trace our ancestry back 17,000 years I don't think there'll be many of us who aren't put on a boat. Interestingly, the other BNP MEP (Andrew Brons) is just third generation - from German lineage - wouldn't it be ironic if they'd had to come here because of persecution?
Nearly a million people voted for the BNP in the European elections, they voted despite being told by everyone but the BNP that it is a racist fascist party, the BNP have a constituency and it was not represented in the audience last night.
We all know how dangerous the BNP is to social cohesion in these troubled times but for the political class and the establishment to make him and the BNP the issue on Question time and for the baiting that was obvious will backfire, yes he was awkward, defensive, lying but many politicians are like that! I would like to have seen a normal Question time that dealt with the issues of the day and got Griffin's views on them....the trouble is some of his views are popular, the BNP are addressing issues the other party's are avoiding but they won't go away, to make the BNP irrelevant the main parties need to get to grips with the issues....I have good reason to hate and fear the BNP but bullying its leader wins him sympathy....I am very concerned that he and his party will grow in strength after last nights debacle.
Question time, what a laugh, this BBC fiasco had nothing to do with genuine debate, it was all about humiliating Nick Griffin, and that, it achieved. Shame on you BBC. Love him or hate him, Nick Griffin was set up as a sacrificial lamb and offered up upon the altar of political correctness, via the BBC.
Hand picked London minority groups made up the disgraceful studio audience, as for the panel, these self righteous bigots, should take the beam out of their own eyes, then they would see clearly enough to remove the speck from Griffin's eye. Nick Griffin asked pertinent questions on homosexuality, Islam, and a law that will force children as young as five years old to learn about sex, including homosexuality, but he was met with a wall of silence from the panel and the studio audience. Yet these were questions that no doubt his constituents wanted answers to.
Let Griffin have a proper debate one to one with Jack Straw, Cameron, Clegg and Brown, then let the British public decide. As it stands, last nights attack on Griffin made him look like the victim, and I fear that the treatment he received might just attract more people to his banner.
It was a rather pathetic performance all round. Griffin seemed unable to answer any of the questions put to him. Unfortunately the pathetic showing from the other panelists meant he wasn't given enough rope with which to hang himself. Straw fluffed his lines in his opening act. Huhn, not for the first time, showed himself to be a two bit spin merchant (he looked as childish as the boy Clegg did in a BBC discussion in the run up to the LibDem leadership election). Warsi was herself; an airhead. The audience had far too many ranters and whoopers to be taken seriously (and the guy who suggested people would buy Griffin a ticket out was just plain puerile). Dimbleby had a tough job to do; he wasn't top class. All in all a very poor, and disappointing, show. Worse, Griffin has a legitimate claim to have been unfairly treated. Whatever people think, we must allow him fair hearing. I hope he gets another go; with competent people like Frank Field, Vince Cable and William Hague. Perhaps someone like Campbell or Rifkind in place of the mis-placed Bonnie Greer.
@Kevin McGrane, @John Jolley. You seem to be missing the point; Griffin was called to account for his detestable racist views and was revealed to be manipulative and deceptive. The BNP have no real agenda other than racism and division. This was an important moment in British politics. It is important that we understand the concerns many people have over sovereignty and immigration, but the answer is not this bunch of thugs in suits.
Kevin McGrane's comments are disingenuous. What happened on Question Time last night was the best possible outcome for the dreadful decision to give this man a platform on mainstream television. Griffin would have loved to be asked about the postal strike or the recession or the war in Afghanistan. He would have spoken in measured, right-ist language, chiming in with conservative concerns of a wide range of the UK population and giving the BNP an image of legitimacy and gravity. Fortunately this opportunity was not allowed to him. Instead the panelists and audience (is Mr McGrane suggesting the audience was packed with anti-BNP activists?) plugged away at exposing this vile, lying, racist little man for what he is. Griffin does not deserve to be a part of a reasoned, wide-ranging debate on current issues while he leads a party that is undeniably racist, anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, and on and on... Imagine if you will that the BNP were in control of the proceedings. Does anyone believe that Bonnie Greer or Baroness Warsi would have even been on the panel?
I agree with Kevin,it was a show trial of Nick Griffin.
Nick got one over smug Straw over who defended Britain in the last war,I think most would agree the RAF did a better job than conschiensious objecters in prison.
All in all , a good start to addressing Britains many problems.
Absolute nonsense. As the FT put it "This was not Question Time, it was a bear-bait, with Nick Griffin as the animal supposedly undergoing torment." It was disgraceful that the BBC spent the whole hour giving a platform for the other four and Dimbleby (who was no chairman, but a partisan) and the audience to engage in petty abuse of Griffin and the BNP. There were lots of pressing current affairs that could have been aired, on defence, education, energy, war etc, where there could have been some sensible engagement, and we could have heard the BNP's views on those. Instead, it was the vile spectacle of a lynching. The BBC, the panel, Dimbleby, and most of the audience should be utterly ashamed of themselves for engaging in this fascist behaviour.