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French died after Italian troops paid off Taliban
Ten French soldiers were killed in Afghanistan after Italians used bribes to keep the region quiet
From those wonderful people who gave you the Mafia and Silvio Berlusconi comes a shocking story of Italian bribery and mendacity.
The story involves 10 French troops who died at the hands of the Taliban in Afghanistan in August 2008 because the Italians, who had been on duty in the region before them, failed to pass on vital information. Namely, that they had been bribing the insurgents not to cause trouble and the region's reputation for being relatively safe was therefore false.
As a result, when the French moved into the Sarobi area near Kabul and the protection payments stopped, the Taliban struck.
As readers of The First Post may remember, the horrible ordeal of the French soldiers was fully exposed with the publication in Paris Match of a series of photos showing jubilant Taliban wearing the clothes and other trophies taken from the dead French soldiers (above).
The insurgents were pictured with the men's weaponry, walkie-talkies and even personal effects like a wrist watch. The publication of the photos provoked outrage in France, which was only increased with the news that many of the dead soldiers had been mutilated.
Now, the actions of the Italian forces in the region have been revealed by the Times in a report today. The paper says the clandestine payments to local militia were not disclosed to the incoming French forces, but they have now been revealed by Western military officials.
The Times says that because they did not know of the payments the incoming French troops made "a catastrophically incorrect threat assessment".
The paper alleges that US intelligence officials found out through intercepted telephone conversations that the Italians had been buying off militants and in June 2008, several weeks before the ambush, the US Ambassador in Rome even made a diplomatic protest to the Berlusconi Government over the tactic.
A fresh round of grieving has now begun in France in reaction to the news that their troops died needlessly.
The only awkward question today is should the French troops' commanders have guessed that something like this was going on. Robert Fox, who writes regularly on defence matters for The First Post, said this morning: "I'm afraid this is par for the course for the Italians. They are well known for using bribes in these situations." ·
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French troops are extremely professional and never naive. Their international experience is larger than Italian soldiers. A famous joke about Italian Army was asking why Italian tanks have rear mirrors.... because they want to see the battle.:-) The stereotype about Italians may contain some truth, but it is not true for our actual troops and it does not take into account that rules of engagement for Italian soldiers in Afghanistan are extremely limited by our Constitution, as they are for Germany.
I want to add two more comments: 1) ISAF is in a foreign country. The relationships with locals cannot be only through bombs and bullets. Good soldiers are ready to neutralize enemies and to die if necessary, but if they like killing they are not soldiers. ISAF is not there to increase Defense Companies' turnovers at all cost. 2) I do insist on the bribe issue: why UK Newspapers have been censored about the BAE biggest bribe ever? Is there a form in BAE (to use First Post title) to report and account for UK bribes? Why do you construe an Italian bribes-French deaths connection, while paying locals is a common practices by all countries?
So the British and Americans were intercepting communications but didt share it with the rest of the Allies. Who is to blame then? It seems to me the Italians were smart, given their reputation as fighters. And no hubbub back home over dead soldiers. Maybe the whole "war" could be bought off? Certainly cheaper than fighting it, but then, nobody back home would make any money. Nobody has ever won a conflict against Afghahistan....just ask the Russians..and weren't the British there before? They dont fight fairly at all !!
The only unforgivable thing in this affair is that the Italians didn't inform the French before handing over.
Bribery has been part of British colonial diplomacy, especially in that part of the world, for hundreds of yesrs.
It costs far less than fighting...and nobody gets killed.
Whatever one may think of the Italians, they are not stupid.
I find funny the interest of British media on Italian bribes and Italian political life.
The moral indignation and the stereotypes of Hillstation1 (and Peter) are ridiculous. Especially when he/she mentions the defense industry. Shall I remind him/her about 1 billion pound bribe that last year embarrassed UK government? BAE? British press had been then very quiet about the biggest bribe in the recent history of Defense industry.
Honor to the French soldiers.
But If British and US intelligence intercept regularly allied intelligence, why didn't they inform the French troops?
The EUSSR may be a politicians dream but it is a public nightmare. This is just another small example of the huge international problems that are brewing in this already troubled dictatorial empire. We are fundamentally seperate and altogether different nations and this phoney 'union' is a synthetic bastard child created by money men and power brokers, predicated on nothing more than a lust for power and a greed for money.
What hope is there for the European Community with members like these?
It is a shocking story, but the French ought to have been on their guard. Clearly something went very wrong on that day. I wonder why, if the Americans have got evidence aquired by surveillance, they did not raise this issue with the Italians beforehand, nor warn the French. Also, why were the Americans monitoring Italian communications in the first place? All is not what is seems, unless you are a grieving French relation. Their loved ones are dead.
Difficult to trust the Italians... At NATO, they are not the most trusted delegation, i.e., they are the most distrusted -- they almost always lie and cheat. In business, i.e., defence industry, they virtually never stick to their word, they always change the rules of the game halfway and do and say things they can't do or deliver. When they are caught doing it, they just smile, move their hands in the air and teasingly say, "Mai, che coza..."
There's a story going around at NATO that during the Cold War, there were always two convoys, two sets of information, two of everything that went around: one done with the Italians and one that's done without the Italians, eg., if there was something that NATO wanted Moscow to hear, they would let the Italians in on something, on a plan, on whatever. In other words, no good thinking NATO member nation would trust the Italians. It continues to this day...
Personally don't trust the Italians in NATO nor the Italians in the defence business, no more than I can throw a 2-ton rock with one hand. In fact, I object to being in the same Alliance with them... When a defence industry colleague suggests doing business with, say, Finmecanica, I say "No!" It just won't work, too difficult to work with Italians, and I know, deep inside, my colleagues know that too.
This reinforces all my prejudices about the Italian military.